2FA Backup and Recovery

##### You said: I have no clue what the task below could have been referring to for my to-do list 2fa backup and restore codes and seed codes ###### ChatGPT said: That task likely refers to making sure you have **secure backups** of your **2FA (two-factor authentication) credentials**, especially in the event that you lose access to your current device (e.g., phone reset, stolen, lost, etc.). Here's a breakdown of what it might be referring to: --- ### ✅ **What “2FA backup and restore codes and seed codes” likely means:** 1. **2FA Backup Codes** - These are *one-time-use* emergency codes provided by services (like Google, Facebook, GitHub) when you set up 2FA. - They allow you to log in **without your phone or authenticator app**. - Example: ``` 1243-8437 9898-2093 ``` - You should **download or print them** and store them somewhere **safe and offline**. 2. **2FA Seed Codes / Secret Keys (TOTP Seeds)** - These are the **secret keys** used by authenticator apps (like Google Authenticator, Authy, or Aegis) to generate your 6-digit codes. - Often displayed as a **QR code** or **base32 string** when you set up 2FA. - If you have the seed, you can **re-import** it into a new authenticator app if you change phones or reinstall. 3. **Restoring 2FA Apps** - If you use an app like: - **Aegis Authenticator** → can export encrypted backups. - **Authy** → cloud backup (optional). - **Google Authenticator** (older versions) → no backup; newer versions can sync to Google Account. - This task might have been reminding you to: - Export the **backup file** from your 2FA app. - Save the seed codes in a password manager or encrypted file. --- ### 📌 What You Might Want to Do Now 1. **Check your Authenticator App** - See if it offers **export or backup** options. - Export and store the file **securely** (e.g., in Bitwarden, KeePass, or a password-protected USB drive). 2. **Go through your critical accounts** - Look for “Download Backup Codes” under their 2FA settings. - Save these backup codes somewhere accessible if your phone is lost. 3. **Store Seed Codes if Possible** - When you set up new 2FAs, record the seed or QR before scanning. - Save these seeds in your password manager securely (as text or QR). --- If you want, I can help you come up with a safe system for organizing and backing up all this securely using Bitwarden, Obsidian, KeePassXC, or a similar tool. ##### You said: Is there a way to back up the seed codes and all that with my sort of text stack at home? ###### ChatGPT said: Yes — with your tech stack and mindset (security-first, local-first, markdown/Obsidian-based, resilient, self-hosted), you can absolutely back up 2FA **seed codes** and **backup codes** in a secure, structured, and recoverable way. --- ### ✅ Ways to Back Up 2FA Seed Codes + Backup Codes with Your Stack #### 1\. **Structured Markdown Notes (in Obsidian Vault)** Store each 2FA credential as a markdown note with YAML metadata. ``` --- account: GitHub type: TOTP issuer: GitHub username: [email protected] backup_codes: - 9832-3290 - 1903-4875 - 2083-2984 totp_seed: JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP tags: [2fa, security, github] --- # GitHub 2FA Details - Added on: 2024-10-01 - TOTP App: Aegis - Recovery Email: [email protected] > Use these backup codes if 2FA device is lost. ``` **Store these Obsidian vaults:** - Inside a **ZFS snapshot-enabled folder** on TrueNAS - Optionally encrypted using **Veracrypt**, **age**, or **Obsidian Git Sync** to a private repo --- #### 2\. **Password Manager Integration (e.g., Bitwarden self-hosted)** Your Bitwarden vault can store: - **Login + TOTP seed** (auto-generates codes!) - **Backup codes** in a custom field or note - You can export your vault encrypted and store it offline for recovery. Example Bitwarden custom fields: ``` TOTP Seed: JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP Backup Code 1: 9832-3290 Backup Code 2: 1903-4875 ... ``` --- #### 3\. **Aegis Authenticator (Android, open source) + Encrypted Export** - Allows export of all accounts as `.aegis` backup file - Can store the file in: - Encrypted Nextcloud folder - ZFS dataset with snapshots - USB drive or Veracrypt vault - Optionally store QR codes or base32 seeds alongside markdown notes --- #### 4\. **Automated Backup Strategy** Use a cron job or script to: - Back up: - `~/Documents/Secure/2FA` - Your Bitwarden `.json` export (encrypted) - Your Aegis `.aegis` export - Send backups to: - Encrypted TrueNAS dataset - External hard drive with offline retention - Cloud encrypted vault (e.g., Proton Drive or Tarsnap) --- ### 🔐 Tips for Security and Recoverability | Concern | Solution | | --- | --- | | **Device loss** | Printed or offline backup (e.g., IronKey, fireproof safe) | | **Obsidian or Bitwarden corrupted** | ZFS snapshots + Git versioning | | **Password leak** | Use long master passwords + YubiKey | | **Emergency access for spouse/family** | Write down simple instructions and store with estate docs | --- ### Want a Template Vault? I can generate a minimal Obsidian vault template structure for: ``` /2FA/ github.md protonmail.md cloudflare.md ``` Each with YAML and markdown structure ready to paste into your vault. Would you like that? ##### You said: How do I backup Duo without a Google drive ###### ChatGPT said: To **back up Duo Mobile** without using Google Drive, you need to rely on **manual secure backup methods**, because Duo **does not offer export or cloud backup** like some other 2FA apps (e.g., Aegis, Authy). Here’s how to safely back it up and future-proof your 2FA setup: --- ### 🔐 Why This Matters If you lose your phone and didn’t back up the **seeds** or **QR codes** of your Duo accounts when first setting them up, **you’re locked out** and will have to go through recovery with each service. --- ### ✅ Best Practices to “Back Up” Duo Mobile Accounts Without Google Drive #### 1\. **Manually Save the TOTP Seed or QR Code When Adding an Account** When setting up 2FA for any service: - Instead of scanning the QR directly in Duo, **save the QR code or seed** first. - Store it securely (see methods below). You can often click “Can’t scan QR?” on most websites to view the **base32 seed** (e.g., `JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP`). --- #### 2\. **Save the Seed in One of These Secure Locations** **A. Obsidian Vault (encrypted folder)** Create a markdown note: ``` --- issuer: Cloudflare account: [email protected] totp_seed: JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP type: TOTP tags: [2fa] --- Use this seed in any TOTP app (Duo, Aegis, etc.) ``` **Encrypt the vault** using Veracrypt or store in an encrypted ZFS dataset on TrueNAS. --- **B. Bitwarden or KeePassXC** - Add TOTP secret as a custom field. - Bitwarden can even generate 2FA codes directly. Example in Bitwarden: ``` Login: cloudflare.com Username: [email protected] Password: ********* TOTP Secret: JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP ``` --- **C. Aegis Authenticator (as a fallback)** - Save seeds there instead of (or in addition to) Duo. - It supports export and encrypted backups, making it ideal for people who don’t want cloud sync. --- ### 🔄 Future Plan: Transition Away from Duo Duo is very secure — but it’s **closed and export-unfriendly**. For long-term security and portability, consider: | Alternative | Features | | --- | --- | | **Aegis Authenticator** | Encrypted backups, open-source, no cloud sync | | **andOTP** (legacy) | Simple, open-source | | **Bitwarden Premium** | 2FA generation + secrets stored securely | | **KeePassXC** | Self-hosted full control, stores TOTP | --- ### 🛠️ Summary Checklist | Step | Description | | --- | --- | | ✅ | **Capture TOTP seed or QR** when adding a new account | | ✅ | **Store it securely** (markdown vault, Bitwarden, KeePassXC) | | ✅ | **Consider alternate app** (Aegis or Bitwarden for portability) | | ❌ | Don’t rely on Duo’s cloud backup – it’s Google-only and limited | | 🔐 | Use encryption + offline backups for your seed data | --- Let me know if you want a CLI tool or Python script to automate backing up seeds or generating QR codes from stored secrets. ##### You said: Would just the QR code work if I lost my phone? ###### ChatGPT said: Yes — **just the QR code is enough to fully recover your 2FA** — as long as it's a standard **TOTP-based QR code** (which most services use, including those compatible with Duo, Google Authenticator, Aegis, etc.). --- ### ✅ Why the QR Code Works The QR code encodes: - The **secret seed** (e.g., `JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP`) - The **issuer** (e.g., `GitHub`) - The **account email/username** It looks something like this: ``` otpauth://totp/GitHub:[email protected]?secret=JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP&issuer=GitHub ``` When you scan that QR in any compatible app, it reconstructs your TOTP entry and starts generating 6-digit codes that sync with the service. --- ### 🔐 Requirements - The QR must be a **TOTP** QR code, **not** a proprietary push-notification setup (like some Duo enterprise uses). - Most personal services (e.g., Google, GitHub, Cloudflare, ProtonMail, etc.) use TOTP. - Store the QR image **securely**, as anyone with it can generate your codes. --- ### 🧠 Recommendation for Use | Situation | What to Do | | --- | --- | | ✅ Setting up 2FA | **Screenshot or save the QR image** before scanning it | | ✅ Already set up | Go to the site’s 2FA settings and **regenerate the QR** to store | | ✅ Printing | Consider printing the QR and storing in a fireproof safe | | ✅ Markdown use | Save the `otpauth://...` URI in your Obsidian vault | | ✅ Offline | Use a QR generator (like [qrencode](https://github.com/fukuchi/libqrencode) or local Python) to recreate the QR if needed | --- ### 💡 Bonus: Generate QR Code from Seed Later If you saved the TOTP seed like this: ``` JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP ``` You can generate the QR later using a tool like this Python snippet: ``` import pyotp import qrcode totp = pyotp.TOTP("JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP") uri = totp.provisioning_uri(name="[email protected]", issuer_name="GitHub") img = qrcode.make(uri) img.save("github_2fa_qr.png") ``` --- Would you like a script or offline tool to generate and print QR codes from stored secrets like this? ##### You said: I don't think that's true it looks like it's generating a new one each time ###### ChatGPT said: You're absolutely right to question that — and you’ve hit on a **critical distinction** in how QR codes work in 2FA setups: --- ### 🔍 **There Are Two Kinds of QR Code Behaviors in 2FA** #### ✅ **1\. TOTP-Based QR Codes (Standard)** - **Most sites** (GitHub, Google, ProtonMail, etc.) use this. - The QR contains a **fixed secret (seed)**. - You can **scan it multiple times**, and it will produce the same 6-digit codes. - **Backing it up once = permanent recovery.** - Example: `otpauth://totp/GitHub:[email protected]?secret=JBSWY3DPEHPK3PXP&issuer=GitHub` #### ❌ **2\. Session-Based or Push-Only QR Codes (Some Duo, Okta, and Enterprise Providers)** - The QR is **not a reusable seed**. - Scanning the QR may: - Log you in to the app - Start a **short-lived setup handshake** - These expire or work only once — **not restorable** later. - These are often used for **push notifications**, **WebAuthn**, or **FIDO2**, not TOTP. --- ### ⚠️ Duo Is a Special Case - **Duo Push** (used in enterprise settings) does **not use TOTP or seeds**. - You can't back it up with a QR or seed. - If you're adding a **personal TOTP-based service** (like GitHub or ProtonMail) to **Duo Mobile**, then the QR is a reusable seed. 👉 But if you're scanning a QR that’s specifically from **Duo’s Admin Portal**, especially for **corporate push login**, **it’s a one-time registration**, and **you can’t back it up via QR**. --- ### 🧪 How to Tell the Difference | Test | What It Means | | --- | --- | | Scan QR in **Duo** and in **Aegis** | If it works in Aegis too → it’s a standard TOTP QR (reusable) | | Try re-scanning QR on a second phone | If it still works → TOTP QR | | Open QR in plain text (use qrreader) | If you see `otpauth://` → TOTP | | If QR opens a web link or auto-logins | Likely a push-only session QR (not restorable) | --- ### ✅ So, Back to Your Case: If you're: - Using **Duo Mobile** for **standard 2FA logins** (like GitHub, Google, etc.), - And the QR starts with `otpauth://`, 👉 then **yes**, you can back it up and reuse it. But if you're: - Using **Duo Mobile** with **enterprise Duo push login**, - Or you’re setting up Duo from an invite link or app-specific QR, 👉 then **no**, the QR is temporary and can't be reused or backed up. --- ### 🛡️ Solution: Back It Up Early For personal accounts: - **Save the TOTP seed or `otpauth://` URI** when first setting it up - Test recovery with an alternate app (like Aegis) - Save it in an encrypted markdown file or password manager For Duo Push accounts: - **Enroll a second device immediately** if your org allows it - Or ask your admin for **bypass or reactivation codes** - Document the re-enrollment process in case of device loss --- Let me know the exact type of QR you're dealing with and I can tell you definitively if it's backup-safe or not. Or if you’d like, I can help you create a secure markdown-based vault for all your TOTP codes.